Dropping a loaded magazine.

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Ty Hamby
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Joined: Feb. 23rd, 2011
Dropping a loaded magazine.

While browsing the internet. I found this little tidbit of information that better explains how procedural penalties are earned when loaded magazines are dropped during a COF. The COF example uses was the IDPA classifier Stage3 string1

Here is the scenario: Stage three, string 1 of the Classification Match. Shooter is suppose to draw and fire 2 rounds at T1-T3 around one side of a barricade, do a Tactical Reload and fire 2 shots at T1-T3 from the opposite side of barricade.

While doing the reload, shooter drops his magazine. Instead of picking up the dropped magazine, he goes to his belt and loads from the spare magazine allowed on his belt. IS THIS A PROCEDURAL ERROR? Is the shooter allowed to utilize all allowed magazines or must he retrieve and utilize only the magazine he started the reload with?

This is Robert Rays response: EDIT: This clarification is old. There is a rule change to the ammedum that supersedes this response. The change is that any loaded magazine that is dropped as a result or your reloading the gun, that magazine must be properly stowed before the last shot is fired. Reloads that require retention still remains the same. Reloads with retention (RWR) still require that during a RWR any magazine with ammo if dropped must be stowed before the next shot is fired.

There are really three separate parts to this question.

Using the example of the classifier. If the shooter is making a RWR or tac-load and drops the partially charged magazine he must pick it up before firing his first shot as per the rule book on page 41. Failure to do so would result in a procedural. The ammo specified that must be retained is the ammo coming out of the gun. It has to be picked up or else you will have shooters going OOPS, I dropped it and essentially doing a speed reload.

Using the same example of the classifier. If the shooter does a RWR and properly stows a partial magazine then while drawing the full magazine drops it, he may go to his belt for another magazine with out incurring a procedural. He has not left that position of cover and there for not left ammo behind. That being said, if a shooter moves to another position he/she must pick up the magazine. This is covered in the rule book on page 39. Ammunition carrier notes: 1. A three second PE will be assessed anytime a loaded ammunition feeding device is dislodged and falls out of the carrier during a CoF. Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does not leave ammunition behind. The first part of that rule is referring to moving through a CoF and knocking out a loaded ammunition feeding device, either by yourself or against a prop, but not while reloading. The second part refers to dropping a magazine while reloading.

The last is partially covered above. If a shooter is moving through a CoF and by any action, other than reloading, dislodges a loaded ammunition feeding device and it falls out of the carrier then he/she will receive a procedural regardless if they pick it up. This is also covered under page 39 Ammunition carrier notes: 1. A three second PE will be assessed anytime a loaded ammunition feeding device is dislodged and falls out of the carrier during a CoF. Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does not leave ammunition behind.

You are correct in your understanding of the rules in this regard. I hope that this letter helps define the rules a little better for you and your fellow SOs and I will notate this for possible clarification in future issues if the rule book.

Robert Ray
IDPA HQ

Lynn Brazelton
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Joined: Feb. 25th, 2011
Wow, that is a very complete

Wow, that is a very complete answer. Great find Ty. Thanks for posting that.

Lynn

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NVSA Staff
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Joined: Feb. 8th, 2011
This is what happened to me

This is what happened to me at a local match. (Club and SO will remain anonymouswink)  I shot to slide lock at my final position. I dropped empty magazine on the ground. While retrieving  the front magazine the back magazine fell out of my holder. I inserted magazine and shot one round into the final target completing the COF. Upon completion ASO pointed out my dropped magazine from mag pouch and issued PE. If I read the above correctly I earned no PE because I did not leave cover and I did not drop the loaded magazine coming out of the gun.

If the shooter does a RWR and properly stows a partial magazine then while drawing the full magazine drops it, he may go to his belt for another magazine with out incurring a procedural. He has not left that position of cover and there for not left ammo behind. That being said, if a shooter moves to another position he/she must pick up the magazine. This is covered in the rule book on page 39.

 I know it talks about RWR but in my case I did not need to retain an empty magazine, nor did I need to retain other magazines on my belt because I never left my final position.

EDIT: see this post I was incorrect in my original thought. I have seen my error and am not correcting it.

"If you plan to leave early, please arrive early to help set up. If you arrive late, please stay late to help take down. If you plan to arrive late and leave early, please do your shooting someplace else."

Mark Hicks
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Joined: Apr. 10th, 2011
 If a shooter is moving

 If a shooter is moving through a CoF and by any action, other than reloading, dislodges a loaded ammunition feeding device and it falls out of the carrier then he/she will receive a procedural regardless if they pick it up.

Ty. I'm not sure but would your situation be covered by the above?  Mark

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NVSA Staff
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Joined: Feb. 8th, 2011
OK Mark I wasn't taking the

OK

Mark I wasn't taking the rules ammendum into consideration.

The "does not leave ammo behind" language has been stricken, and replaced with "pick up and stow before last shot." See the addendum.

4. Ammunition Carrier Notes:
Modification of rule page 39

1. A three (3) second procedural penalty will be
assessed any time a loaded ammunition feeding device
(magazine, speedloader or full moon clip) is dislodged
and falls out of the carrier during a course of fire.
Dropping a loaded ammunition feeding device during a
reload is not a procedural as long as the competitor does
not leave ammunition behind
retrieves and properly
stows the device before the last shot of the string is fired.
The prior sentence does not include devices dislodged
from a carrier which ALWAYS receives a PE.

First Scenario: Was the magazine dislodged from the pouch? Yes. Instant uncorrectable PE. It's kind of like dislodging the third mag when grabbing for the second. Instant PE.

I could argue that I didn't "dislodge" it from the pouch, but drew it normally then dropped it. OK, but then to avoid the PE I would have to pick it up and stow it before firing my last shot. (now that the rules have changed)

Scenario 2: I dropped a mag during a reload and didn't pick it up and stow it before your last shot. PE.
 

I will edit the first post to reflect the correct ruling.
 

"If you plan to leave early, please arrive early to help set up. If you arrive late, please stay late to help take down. If you plan to arrive late and leave early, please do your shooting someplace else."

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